Lockout tensioning

[moosryan]

how consistent is a string job on a good crank machine (around 6, 700) with a "lockout" tensioner?

thanks, moos.

[kwick]

Hi Moos,

I have one and I think they can be consistent if used in a consistent way. By that I mean you must wind back in the same manner each time. If you wind one string back really quickly and another slowly, you can get different results.
Also remember that because it reaches the set tension and then locks out, you will generally get a resulting stringbed that is a couple of kgs less than if performed at the same tension on a constant pull machine. May not be a problem but remember to take it into account if you take on customers that are used to having their re-strings performed on a constant pull machine.

I do check calibration every 10 or so frames and have only had to adjust once in 18 months of use and it is pretty good right across the tension range. But I only do about 5 frames a week max.

I have a pretty solid mount on a stand with a 6 point support which seems good so that side of things seems OK. I'm less happy about the tensioner method.

Having done a bit of investigation and seen demos around the market, I'm beginning to consider changing to a good drop-weight machine (Stringway/Laserfibre) because I think I can get better and more consistent results from that.

My concerns with the lock-out method are :

1) Possible inconsistency if tension pulled at different speeds
2) Lower reference tension than compared to constant pull machine
3) Possible increased loss of tension after 24 hours or during play as elasticity is not taken out of the string in the stringing process. May be able to help counteract this by pre-stretching.

That's my view of things.

Cheers,

kwick

[moosryan]

bump?

[David Pavlich]

I echo kwick's analysis. If you get one, look at the mounting system and the clamps. Gamma makes a good machine as does Alpha. Silent Partner's Maestro is good.

David

[KendraB]

I am a 4.5 tournament player and I have been stringing my racquets on a $550 Guterman lockout machine for 5 years. I am very happy with how my string jobs play.

[cheezhdinil]

I've had a LO Gamma Progression II for a decade. I always crank slowly and, I hope, consistently. But as a stop-gap before getting a WISE head, I had callibrated my machine to pull +3 lbs. This added tension was to overcome the lockout feature compared to CT machines. I had a chance to A/B it with a Prince 6000 that came into my club for an event. The ERTs were very compatible, but when I strung on their machine and played the rqt, I KNEW. I still have the Gamma machine, but where the crank was, now sits a WISE tension head. Recently, I strung for a Future's tourney and got feedback from the players that was positive about my switch. I'll never be without the CT head, even if it means renting a generator...LOL It makes that much of a difference in string beds to me.

[BallJacker]

CT? Constant Tension? is that a brand of a machine or an adjective?

As for a possible power outage, I was thinking a UPS, that computers use, can be use just in case. If no power were available, a small Honda generator could be used.

[cheezhdinil]

BJ, yes CT did mean constant tension, and the generator thing was kind of a joke...unless it's an outdoor tournament, I can't imagine anyone ever NEEDING a stringjob while my city is in black-out. Sorry for the confusion.

[BallJacker]

I was stringing the other day, then all of a sudden a brown out right about at dusk. I have a Gamma 5003 crank, but I did not have any lights for about 30 mins. I'm buying a Wise in the next few months, and I was considering using a UPS just in case.

[PBODY 66]

I've used lockout machines for 25 years and with consistent technique, I've gotten consistent results.

[cheezhdinil]

Having had years' of experience on lock-outs, and now some with constant pull, I truely find that constant pull jobs feel more consistent. I'm not saying that x #s on one machine is better than the other, but my racquets' string-bed feels better in constant pull. I cannot explain why other than NO string has much chance of having significantly more or less tension than it's neighbors'.

Balls, poorly hit, seem to be more "in the pocket" than I'd experienced with my crank machine. I'm speaking of slight mishits....NOT frame jobs here. And, since I can rely on the technology in lieu of myself...I'm sticking with it.

[STRINGA]

For those who are interested; we have a document that shows the measured tensions during pulling of different tensioners in grahps.

These graphs show, that lock outs loose 11 to 17+ lbs depending on the type of string.
Because the elongation of the string has tremendous influence on the loss, it is only possible to get consistant results when the same string is used.

Of course the speed of pulling also has influence; The faster you pull the more you loose on a LO, because the string needs time to stretch.

The document also describes why a high quality electronic machine can hardly approach the accuracy of a Constant Pull dropweight (one Pull).

One of the conclusions can be that mechanical CP is better ( and cheaper) then electronic CP.

If you are interested just send me an email to strway@hetnet.nl.

Stringa

[KendraB]

You are right that with lockout machines the stringbed tension that results from the string job varies with the stretch or elongation of the particular string. However I disagree with your numbers. I used drop weight machines for a long time before I got a "faster and easier" manual crank. With Prince synthetic the difference is 5 pounds. With Zyex there is no difference, and the same is true of gut. With multifilaments it's 5 or 6 pounds. Though with Gamma Professional it's 3 pounds. Generally, with all Gamma;s irradiated nylon strings, the difference is 3 pounds. Listen I don't know how this study was done. But the bottom line is experience. How does the stringbed play?

[STRINGA]

I think we agree about the figures, because you mention strings with a very high ELASTIC elongation. As soon as you string monofilaments and bad nylons the difference grows tremendous. In Europe there are stringers who only use monofilaments, and the difference in elongation of those strings is enormous. For a good mono the elastic elongation is 1 % and the remaining elongation is 2 % (over 20 kg). A bad mono has 0,5 % elasticity and 8 % remaining, so it stretches a lot but does not have any recovery.

I also think that we have to distinguish 2 things:
The difference in stringbed stiffness or playability is caused by the total loss of tension during stringing, being mainly loss in the clamps and the loss in the tensioner. So if the result with the LO approaches that of the drop weight it could mean that the loss in the clamps of the LO is lower.
It is also very important to straighten the cross strings while the tensioner is pullingl, which is difficult with a LO.
Of course the calibration of both units is important also.

I only mean the difference in result of the tension unit. The graphs show the tension during pulling and , and they show clearly what happens during pulling.

But of course every item can be looked at from different angles so I would appreciate to hear any opinions about the graphs. Although it seems difficult to mass around with the result in the graphs.
For anybody who want to have a look just send me your email address in a pm and I will send the document to you.
We can learn from any discussion about this.

Stringa

[BallJacker]

It's all about technique. I try to straighten the crosses during tensioning with a Lock Out. It's not that hard to do, but some find it difficult. Eventually I'll upgrade to a electric CP tensionhead.

[KendraB]

Hi Cheezhdinil. In my opinion the most important thing is whether you can duplicate your results. Given the same racquet, the same string, and the same tension, can you produce a stringbed with an identical feel every time? I can do this with my $550 Guterman manual crank machine. I am sure of this. I am a tournament player who plays a control game. I am very sensitive to stringbed stiffness. I restring my racquet every month. I always get the same stringbed stiffness.

[KendraB]

Hi Balljacker. Your comment about strightening the crosses as you string them interests me. I joined the USRSA this year, and I gather from the Stringers Digest that most stringers do not straighten the strings. I always do. Not as I pull them, but immeiately afterward. Most stringer do not straighten them until the job is done, I gather from the Stringers Digest. Assuming you do the crosses from the top down, the result will be an increasing large arc as each cross is pulled, therefore a progressive loss in tension. Do they play better that way, or is it just faster? I don't know. I am going to stick with my normal technique.

[SpinDog]

Straightening each of your crosses as you go during tensioning is the way to go. You’ll get closer to your reference tension that way and your string job will be more consistent. I straighten crosses as I go during tensioning and then do a touch up if needed at the end.

[cheezhdinil]

I'm chiming in with the Dog on this....if you pull in an arc, it seems apparent that NOT all the tension gets into the stringbed. Granted, it's not as if one leaves an extra foot of string, but the difference is there. I can't say how much difference, because I always straighten as I pull.

Another case of "if it works, use it".

[jazzyfunkybluesy]

If your results of accuracy are unbiased then why do most if not all of the touring pros prefer electronic constant pull machines?
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[cheezhdinil]

Jazzy, I KNOW! It's cuz none are sponsored by Klippermate!!! LMAO

[jazzyfunkybluesy]

Honestly can you envision Wilson or Priority One stringing services using a foot operated drop weight machine. Plus the Stringway MS200 is $1579 dollars for an upright model.
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[STRINGA]

If your results of accuracy are unbiased then why do most if not all of the touring pros prefer electronic constant pull machines?

There are a number of reasons that pro stringers do not use manual machines on tournaments:
* The players demand known electronic machines.
* An electronic machine is much more convenient than a drop weigth when you string all day.
* The exposure is also importantof the stringers .

But when we talk only about the quality of the string job the electronics wont win and I know at least one famous prostringer who uses a Stringway drop weight for him self and changed to a footoperated MS200 later.

Quote from a TW discussion:
Some notable veterans of the board such as Thomas Martinez and Michael Chaho choose double action vs. single action on their Laserfibre MS200DXs, because they think it's more accurate and holds tension better.

Stringa