View Full Version : Stringing machine to air
The stringing machine to air are simple and reliable (never do not have need of calibrations), why not if they find some in sale?
Qual'è the reason of their failure?
I would want to transform of one manual in one to air. Councils?
I guess you are referring to "pneumatic" stringing machines. Unfortunately I don't have any experience, due to the reason you just mentioned - they are very hard to find for sale anywhere.
Anybody here who has previously worked with pneumatic machines and knows their weaknesses?
Yes, I referred to pneumatic stringing machine. To the following address I have found these 4 models.
http://www.eagnas.com/lilylee/airseri.html
It would appeal to to me to listen to the opinion of who already had experience with this type of stringing machine
wow those look pretty neat, i wonder how fast and accurate they are. any idea on a price range for 1 of these bad boys?
You guys are incredible, why do you go looking for such things, Luca stop putting ideas into Jaypros's head. :(
I have seen these machines in racquet factories in Taiwan, if you see how pre-strung sticks are strung over there, you would never buy a pre-strung racquet, never even think about it, it's hopeless :eek: .
The racquets are hand woven (mains and crosses) in less that 5 minutes by workers (often women) who weave them with the racquet on their lap. They just leave a little loup after the first knot. The racquets are then placed in these pneumatic machines, the stringer takes a little hook tool, picks up the string after about 4 mains then pulls at about 90-100 lbs, clamps it, then pulls through about another 4 mains by hooking the 4th one then "boom" another 90 lbs. In FOUR pulls the mains are done, then onto the crosses Top to Bottom (TB) or Bottom to Top (BT) same difference, another 4 pulls and the racquet is finished and tied off. Time to tension the pre-woven frame, a few minutes. Cost ? A couple of bucks, including the string. :mad: :mad:
I can't imagine any of you wanting to string like that. The result is not worth talking about. Long live un-strung frames (virgins), thank God that stringers can do the job correctly, even if it takes longer and costs a bit more.
:cool:
dont worry JayCee i dont plan on opening a stringing factory in Taiwan anytime soon ok? i promise....unless you want to go halves with me? hahaha. i just thought it sounded like a cool machine thats all...no worries mate, i agree that a virgin stick is well worth the time effort and knowledge of a stringer, whether in his basement, or his shop.
Excused but..., I do not understand. :confused: (I do not speak l'inglese)
I well I have asked impressions and technical councils on purpose for a type of incordatrice for being able to transform for hobby my old manual stringer. Speaking with about the pneumatic experts they have said to me that the cylinders to air are precise " F(kg) = p(bar). A(cm²) ".
Jay Cee speaks me of Taiwan, of women who stringer, of four string to the time, 90-100 lbs.... just I do not understand this type of answer...
:eek:
Also the Prince P200 is one stringer machine to air
The essence of Jay Cee's post is: Keep your fingers away from pneumatic machines. You will not be able to produce good stringing results with them.
Luca,
Sorry to ruffle your feathers mate, but the machines on the address that you posted are Eagnas compressed air stringing machines that are made for high speed stringing in a racquet factory. My posting was just an insite into the real application of these machines. If you didn't understand that then I can better appreciate your quest for an air machine. ;)
Sorry I do not personally know of the Prince machine that you are talking about. :confused:
If it is a Ferrari, I don't understand why you sent me off to look at a tractor, the only thing they have in common is that they are both painted red. :mad:
Let me know if the Prince machine is interesting or not, I am also curious.
Bye,
:cool:
OK Jay Cee, is not a problem.... :)
I does not have intention to buy one to stringer machine pneumatic.
I want for I delight "to automate" my manual machine. Between the several possibilities it has been advised the system to air, therefore I have made a search in the web in order makes me un'idea :confused: of as they are made and I have found those of the Eagnas and the Prince. (I have written the link in order to make to understand what I meant in order to stringer machine to air)
Before beginning the job I wanted to know why they are not diffuse since this system beyond to being economic can be much precise.
Bye
(I ask excuse for my writing in English) :(
themoscon
2004-07-30, 07:07
I personally have no experience of going to a sweatshop in taiwan, but i have seen former Wimbledon players using the Prince P200, and it's nothing like you made it appear. Sure it's quite quick, but the "4 strings at a time, at 90-100lbs each..." that's just the inexperianced cheap laborers. Anyone can make any machine a professional, accurate machine, you just have to have the right work ethnics, and the crave to be the best.
Themoscon,
Once again, for those who don't read all the previous postings, my comments concerned the Eagnas compressed air machines and not the Prince P-200.
Whether it be one system or another, the air machines are used in the racquet factories, but they also use crank machines as well. The workers they have are anything but inexperienced cheap labour, they are very hard working people who do what they are payed to do exactly they way that they are instructed to do it. Ethics have nothing to do with the quality of their work. To do what they do in the time that they take is extra-ordinary (thanks DF). I do not criticize neither their work nor the result, and you should not judge them either. :o
What I am trying to do, is make people aware of the shortcomings of pre-strung racquets, and trying to encourage players to buy virgin frames and to get them strung with the most appropriate string at the recommended tension for each player's specific needs. ;) This requires the competences of a good stringer, and hopefully the player will be far more satisfied with a personalised string job than he would have been with a pre-strung stick bought off the shelf in a super-market. :o
As for air stringing machines, if the tensionner is well calibrated, and if the rest of the machine is of reasonable quality then there is no reason to believe that it is not possible to string racquets on these air machines just as well as an equivalent quality machine using another tensionning system.
:p
Bye
:cool:
hold onto your hats, but...i agree with Jay Cee lol....also, prestrung sticks are usually of a lesser quality than a virgin frame...on the other hand, a person who buys a pre strung stick plays an average of twice a year, whereas a person who buys from a pro shop, or anywhere else and gets it strung him/herself is usually a more serious player on the whole.
Thanks a lot Jaypro, your point is valid as well. If and when one day the player who bought a pre-strung stick gets a good string job done on it, he is very often surprised to find that he has a better racquet than he thought. He may well play tennis more than twice a year because he enjoys it more.
This is a strong point for new stringing business. Sometimes a simple question like "was your stick already strung when you bought it?" is quite sufficient to lead to re-stringing the racquet. One happy player can bring others, and that can get the ball rolling. As long as the strings are good and they are well strung your new business can start to grow. ;)
Bye
:cool:
Hi Jay Cee, please have a look at this:
http://store6.yimg.com/I/racquetballcatalog_1799_427400
Is that what makes you no fool? You sure got me fooled :confused:
So what, if that is a photo of a Prince P200, there's no air in that one. :p
Just a photo of a crank handle Prince stringing machine. The only air here would come from a stringer after eating mexican beans the night before. :D :D
David Pavlich
2004-12-22, 05:46
Stay away from the pneumatics. They are incredibly unreliable as far as calibration is concerned. They work alright, but every time you fire it up, you have to calibrate it.
This isn't my experience, but I've spoken with those that have. Stay away!
David
nateng72
2005-03-30, 01:53
for what it's worth, i own the p-200. it is very accurate!!! and unless the gamma spring load calibrator is not a good measure of accuracy, my machine is on everytime i tested it.
the only thing i have problem with is when starting it up. i have to move the tension head back and forth a few time to get the tension to be where i want it to be. because it is pneumatic, the compressor need to build up air to pull the tension head (but this only takes a few minutes, 5 tops). but believe me, once it's ready, it's extremely fast.
david, saying what you've said is similar to saying that drop weigh machines are inaccurate and waste of money/time, etc. i bet jay cee have a thing or two to say about this. in my opinion, it's all in the design and the quality of its parts.
god forbid, who would ever dream of buying a pre-strung racquet! well, i did, but that was when i first discovered tennis (some 15 yrs. ago).
David Pavlich
2005-04-01, 06:44
for what it's worth, i own the p-200. it is very accurate!!! and unless the gamma spring load calibrator is not a good measure of accuracy, my machine is on everytime i tested it.
the only thing i have problem with is when starting it up. i have to move the tension head back and forth a few time to get the tension to be where i want it to be. because it is pneumatic, the compressor need to build up air to pull the tension head (but this only takes a few minutes, 5 tops). but believe me, once it's ready, it's extremely fast.
david, saying what you've said is similar to saying that drop weigh machines are inaccurate and waste of money/time, etc. i bet jay cee have a thing or two to say about this. in my opinion, it's all in the design and the quality of its parts.
god forbid, who would ever dream of buying a pre-strung racquet! well, i did, but that was when i first discovered tennis (some 15 yrs. ago).
You stated all I needed to read. Buy a good electronic, turn it on and go. No need to worry about air, seals in the ram, moisture in the air system, corrosion because of moisture, etc., etc. My machine tensions quickly, reliably and consistantly from the moment it comes on line.
Ask yourself; why don't the stringing cabins at Roland Garros, Wimbledon, Flushing Meadows and so on have air machines? It's because they use electronics for the inherent accuracy and ease of use.
As far as drop weights, they do well for what they are...a frame or two a day, not a volume situation. I had 18 frames to do yesterday, 16 the day before and 12 the day before that. If I was using a drop weight, I'd still be stringing.
And JayCee knows my opinions well just as I know his opinions.
David
Gaines Hillix
2005-04-02, 02:46
This is a guess, but these machines require a compressor, regulators and pistons to work. I can imagine they are more mechanically complex than a crank or electronic machine. However, for those so inclined and certainly those with factory mechanics on hand, they might might be simple to fix. The Prince P200 was a good machine, but it was big, heavy and noisey. The features on these machines are also very basic. No memory, prestretch, CP or Lock Out modes, etc.
nateng72
2005-04-02, 04:19
david, your points are well-taken. and if i had to shell out $700-800 for a machine, i'd probably will go with an electronic machine too. but, the fact-of-the-matter is, i paid $300 shipped to my door for a machine that retailed around $1800 14+ yrs ago (which at the time was considered by many the ferrari of stringing machines).
i've also read a fair share of reviews from people owning electronic machine that complaint of different tension reading from one pull to the next, as well as drops in tension once motor warms up. one company even suggest that you turn their machine on and let it warm up for 5 minutes before begin stringing. so, there are plusses and minuses to both. but in my opinion, the p-200 was certainly accurate, extremely fast and dependable.
David Pavlich
2005-04-02, 06:08
david, your points are well-taken. and if i had to shell out $700-800 for a machine, i'd probably will go with an electronic machine too. but, the fact-of-the-matter is, i paid $300 shipped to my door for a machine that retailed around $1800 14+ yrs ago (which at the time was considered by many the ferrari of stringing machines).
i've also read a fair share of reviews from people owning electronic machine that complaint of different tension reading from one pull to the next, as well as drops in tension once motor warms up. one company even suggest that you turn their machine on and let it warm up for 5 minutes before begin stringing. so, there are plusses and minuses to both. but in my opinion, the p-200 was certainly accurate, extremely fast and dependable.
I'm not sure which electronics you're talking of, but I've owned 3 (Silent Partner eStringer DG which I sold, Silent Partner Aria which is in my living room, and a Babolat Sensor in my shop) and I've had no problem with different tensions after each pull. Like I said earlier, I did 18 frames Wednesday on my Sensor and it did just fine. And I repeat once again, why is it that there are nothing but electronic machines at the top tournaments? It's because of the ease of use and consistent performance pull after pull.
David
nateng72
2005-04-04, 21:55
david, i think you're still missing my point.
how much did you shell out for the babolat? and how much did the top pro shops spend on their stringing machine? i'm willing to bet at least 4 to 5 times what i paid for mine. and as far as i know, you can't get anymore accurate then getting 65lbs pull when you set it to 65lbs.
as for silent partner, i read a thread in this forum (if i'm not mistaken) about a someone calling silent partner about getting diff. reading between one pull and the next. the answer from their rep. is that the due to it being an AC motor, tension will read different from one pull to the next. i don't own a silent partner but i'm not going to argue with what their own rep. said. if i had time, i'd find and paste the link to that thread. but i don't question what was said because i know that AC current does fluctuates and anything that runs on AC is susceptable to this.
David Pavlich
2005-04-05, 06:46
david, i think you're still missing my point.
how much did you shell out for the babolat? and how much did the top pro shops spend on their stringing machine? i'm willing to bet at least 4 to 5 times what i paid for mine. and as far as i know, you can't get anymore accurate then getting 65lbs pull when you set it to 65lbs.
as for silent partner, i read a thread in this forum (if i'm not mistaken) about a someone calling silent partner about getting diff. reading between one pull and the next. the answer from their rep. is that the due to it being an AC motor, tension will read different from one pull to the next. i don't own a silent partner but i'm not going to argue with what their own rep. said. if i had time, i'd find and paste the link to that thread. but i don't question what was said because i know that AC current does fluctuates and anything that runs on AC is susceptable to this.
The AC motor stringers aren't electronic stringers. You're correct that there can be differing readings with this type of machine due to fluctuations in the voltage/amperage.
HOw much I paid for my machine has nothing to do with why I purchased it. It simply does what I need it to do better than any other machine out there. A good drop weight does good for what it is, but it doesn't do what I need it to do and that is to give me excellent accuracy, efficient performance and a minimum of problems (other than the clamp base springs). There are a lot of things that can go wrong with an air machine. Sure, you paid a lot less than I did but what is your duty cycle? Are you stringing 10 or 12 a day? I used to run a maintenance shop and I am very aware of the problems that creep up with pneumatic equipment. I can't afford to have to be rebuilding air cylinders and worrying about all of the mechanical bugaboos that accompany an air compressor.
And I repeat, there's a reason that there are no air compressors in the stringing cabins at the big tournaments.
David
Quote :
As far as drop weights, they do well for what they are...a frame or two a day, not a volume situation. I had 18 frames to do yesterday, 16 the day before and 12 the day before that. If I was using a drop weight, I'd still be stringing.
And JayCee knows my opinions well just as I know his opinions.
David
Unquote.
I agree entirely, I absolutely prefer to string racquets on my Stringway drop weight machine with flying clamps (and most importantly, it is on a floor stand, this really improves the machine :) ) for me it is a pleasure and I feel that I have total control over the quality of work that I am doing, but this is also a passion for perfection, and if I may add that it is personal pride in being able to use my experience to obtain an really excellent string job with a very simple, basic stringing machine. It's like Sampras playing with a wooden racquet and being able to play better than most other players with a racquet made with the latest materials. The results that I get are not necessarily a general standard for the majority of stringers using such a machine. ;)
I am happy to string 4 or 5 racquets a day with the drop weight, I have strung at least 10/day, but as soon as the work load is more important I switch to my Tecnifibre SP44 (old but excellent electronic dual fixed clamp machine). It is certainly less physical, the tensioning is always constant and I really don't need to be particularly concentrated on my job to get a very good result. This is nothing to do with passion, just good quality regular and faster string jobs with less physical effort. Something like having a 5 speed floor shift in a sports car for a fun drive on the weekend, or for the rest of the time preferring a Chevy with an automatic box when you spend 2 hours in a traffic jam to and from work every day (try doing that with your sports car and you'll trade it in before the end of the month). :eek:
For someone like David, it is evident that a top quality electronic machine is totally justifiable and necessary, for a home stringer or a player who takes pride in stringing a couple of racquets a week (or even a day) then the Stringway (Laserfibre in the US) drop weights are the best quality/value/performance machines on the market. The choice is yours, they cost a bit more, they have a 10 year guarantee, and they are a real pleasure to string with, but not adapted to running a stringing business with 15 string jobs each day (but there are Stringway electronic machines which are great for the Pros as well). ;)
Cheers,
JC :cool:
nateng72
2005-04-05, 23:04
hi david,
i think that we've gotton off the subject of this thread in term of intent use of the machine. the OP posed a question of pneumatic machine for hobbie use or non-commercial use. (at least, this is what i interpreted from his limited english) i own one (p-200), so i commented on it's accuracy, speed and ease of operation. i'm not sure how we got into commercial use and i agree with you on certain things you've said. i mean, if money is not a problem for us "home/hobbie" stringers, sure, i love to have a babolat, a gamma, or other electronic machines that the pros use.
nate n.
Gaines Hillix
2005-08-12, 00:16
Luca, it sounds like you are considering converting your crank machine to a pneumatic machine by replacing the tension head? You might check with Eagnas to see if it is possible to adapt one of there tension heads to your machine. I am afraid you are on your own if you want to build the tension head yourself. A better option is to replace it with a Wise 2086 electronic tension head. Take a look at www.tennishead.com (http://www.tennishead.com) . It has many more features and I think it would be more reliable.
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