Stringing Efficiencies

[ggtennis]

I am interested in hearing about and learning some of your favorite ways to save time and create efficiency in the stringing process. Always looking for ways to improve and shave a few minutes/seconds off the time to complete a string job. One of my favorites is holding onto the end of the string when working the crosses. This way it never has to be found as it is always in my hand. Others?

[kwick]

Weaving your crosses one additional row in advance of tensioning makes weaving so much easier. Especially useful with natural gut. You just have to leave enough loop to pull your tension.
regards,
kwick

[Jay Cee]

Try stringing with a Stringway drop weight machine, better, faster, more accurate and easier than any electric machine which would probably cost about the same. :)
Bye,
:cool:

[ericb]

Weaving your crosses one additional row in advance of tensioning makes weaving so much easier.

I'm undecided about this. I've strung many racquets, and used both methods. While it's true that weaving one ahead creates less friction when pulling the next cross (which JayCee demonstrated to me at his shop recently), and hence removes the need to fan the cross while pulling it, it's not clear to me that you're really saving any time. You're still doing the same number of weaves and pulling the same amount of string - no rocket science here.

I think the kind of string matters, as well as the type of machine you're using. Since my machine uses a rotary tensioner, weaving one ahead with a stiff mono is a total pain when trying to get the string on the tensioner. You get around it, but I have the impression it actually slows me down a bit. A nice soft multi works great, but I don't necessarily feel like I'm saving any time.

So currently, I weave one ahead if I'm using something soft, but don't bother with monos, mostly because of my tensioner. The Stringway that JayCee uses is ideally suited even for monos, since the tensioner actually pulls in the 'middle' of the loop instead of on one side like you'd see with a Sensor for example. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm misrepresenting ;)

Perhaps someone can convince me that's it's worth the extra hassle of weaving one head even for stiff monos on a rotary tensioner?

Cheers,

Eric

[abiriax]

so jay cee, you use a stringway drop weight machine? I'm amazed as i thought almost all professionals used expensive electonic machines like the babolat sensor or something similar.

[Hawkeye2]

@abiriax

Jay Cee already said that he uses several stringing machines, a drop weight is just one of them...

Bye

[kwick]

Good feedback Eric,
I'm not a fast stringer by any means but am experimenting weaving using the one hand on top and one hand underneath and just using pressure from two fingers to guide the cross string through the mains. I find I can do this easily if I am one in advance and get right across the frame quickly. However, I get stuck due to the additional friction if I attempt to weave immediately after tensioning. I guess it's my baby soft paws that haven't seen a hard days graft in their lives :D :D
I'm using a sprung tension lockout machine that doesn't seem to have the tensioning restrictions you describe.
cheers,
kwick

[Jay Cee]

Thanks Hawkeye2, yes Abiriax I have several machines including the Tecnifibre SP44 which is about as Pro as you can get, easy to string and very fast, but I still prefer to do a good string job on my drop weight. Let's just say that I feel that I am in complete control of what I do and I get a much better feeling with both the string and the machine. :cool:

For what it is worth I have a choice of 3 different cradles with the Stringway, for some racquets with widely spaced strings there is no doubt that dual fixed clamps are better and I prefer the single action to the double action. For real player racqets with tighter string patterns I have a real preference for stringing with floating clamps. These clamps from Stringway are exactly the same as their fixed clamps, but with a center piece between the jaws which enables me to clamp 2 strings at a time. The precision and the efficiency of this stringing system is really impressive. In fact we are comparing a finely engineered machine using simple solutions pushed to optimal quality, to mass produced material that tries to impress stringers with complicated solutions inspired by professional machines (at 10-20 times the price) but are inaccurate and less agreable to use. :confused:

I strongly believe that this Stringway with floating clamps is an interesting alternative to the cheap double action fixed clamp machines, with drop weights or motors, which personally I find them to be terribly inaccurate and I have no pleasure when I string with one. :(

Few people would buy an electric scooter when for the same price you could buy a top quality bike, there again you don't expect the same results or personal satisfaction - the same reasoning is valid for a stringing machine. Look at the Ektelon Neos, and compare what you can buy for this price at SP or Eagnas, even JB preferred to pay more for a better machine even if he has to crank it. ;)

The whole problem is that a lot of stringers think that a US$500 electric machine is real value for money, and therefore a drop-weight with floating clamps at this price seems to be too expensive (because a roughly comparable machine from SP or Eagnas would be half the price). If only the end result in the quality of the string job was the critera for purchase, there would be no place for these cheap machines in the market. Unfortunately the contrary is closer to reality, flashy toys sell better than good machines. :confused:

Bye.
:cool:

[steeljack]

JayCee, last week i bought my new Fischer Pro N.1 and i told to the manager of the shop that i string my self the raquets by my drop weight machine with 2 fixed clamp 2 actions (TYGER PRO-45).
He wasn't agree with me and he said me that a manual drop-weight machine stressed the frame so much than electronic stringing machine and is very dangerous for the frame...
I come back home and i felt very sad when i tought to my stringing machine!!! :mad:
Repeat, i'm a beginner and i wont to learn most possible from the professional stringers from this forum :)
I have another question...
When i start the main, until i'm outside from the triangle of the throat i pull twice strings a time from the head side of the fame... is it good??
Thank you very much for your gentility and i'm sorry for my bad english!!

[Hawkeye2]

Hi steeljack,

first, the shop owner strings customer rackets on an electric machine right ?!

So he is interested in stringing your racket, too !

He wants to make some more money and if you string for yourself he has no chance to do so. That's why he tells you some rubbish about more stress for the frame on a drop weight.

Don't worry ! If you fix your racket thoroughly there's no more stress on the frame than on an electric machine, it all depends on the mounting system not the pulling system !

When stringing you should tension each main for itself. By pulling on two mains at a time you'll lose some tension.

So, go on and string your new racket on your own machine !

Bye

[steeljack]

Hi Hawkeye2,
I thought that he was a correct person...
I pull twice strings at time only the central main string that came out in the triangle of the throat because if i pull string by string, the central main strings slide on the inferior surface of the frame if i pull it from the throat side of the frame...
What do you think about?

[Hawkeye2]

Hi steeljack,

if you tension only the 2 center mains at a time this won't be a problem when looking at the overall tension.

If you can avoid some stress for the frame by doing so then go on !

Bye

[Jay Cee]

Hi y'all,

Lots of comments, mostly positive and generally I agree with all of you.

Eric, weaving in a cross before tensionning the previous one doesn't really gain time, but it is much easier on the string. For gut it is important, for monos less of a problem if you don't do it, but you really need to fan the string to put it in well.

ggtennis, gaining time is not achieved by working fast, but by a well established method of constantly moving from one action to the next without stopping to think or to look at what you are doing. The best stringers that I have ever seen for speed are from Sri Lanka, I had 12 of them working on my team for several years and what amazed me is that they never seem to be in a rush. Really smooth, like a well oiled machine, but never a second lost, always using every second to do something that will work towards the completion of the string job. The best one could string 4 racquets an hour, every hour for 8 hours. Including meal breaks (sandwiches) he would string 30 racquets in 8 hours, every one of them perfectly. Yet never giving the impression of being in a hurry, just smooth constant work, thats talent. As for me, using an identical method and the same machine could not get within 5 minutes of him per racquet, yet I had the impression that I was working faster.

Steeljack, what you have experienced is, as Hawkeye2 says, understandable and most homestringers have had similar experiences, don't get upset with the guy in his shop, he is just trying to protect his business. As for the stress on the frame, Hawkeye2 is right, the mountings and the clamps are the most important and if the frame is correctly mounted in the cradle, and if you string from the center mains alternatively left and right to keep the tensions on the frame balanced, then there is no risk for the frame. A drop weight would not be more or less stressfull to the racquet, as long as you use it correctly and you guide the weight rather than just letting it drop.
As for pulling 2 strings at a time in the center, I agree with Hawkeye2 that this is a prefereable solutuion, so that you minimise the loss of tension, you can manually pull on the tensionned main string with your fingers to pick up the slack on the previous main, like this you can obtain the same result as single pulling. Alternatively, each time you need to tension 2 strings at a time, you can add 4 kgs tension, but in this case no need to pull on the mains to pick up the slack, (don't forget to lower the tension as soon as you have finished tensionning the string). If you need tension 2 cross strings with 1 pull (sometimes necessary when using floating clamps), you need to do both : 4 kgs. extra weight, and you must also manually pull on the tensionned cross string with your fingers to pick up the slack on the previous cross.

Kwick, all comments are top, as usual. With a good machine and good strings you could be awsome, there is still some room for improvement.

As for JB, I am surprised to not find a posting from him on this subject, our aspiring Pro should be getting some speed into his stringing after a few months experience. Maybe in Kwick"s sly remarks about "ATW in less than 80 days" he was also referring to the time needed to string the stick. I would love to hear how long it really takes Jaypro do achieve an ATW, so how about it JB? :D

Cheers,
:cool:

[steeljack]

Thanks Hawkeye2 and Jay Cee!!
I would prefer pull once string a time, but the problem is that with my Tyger pro-45 while i pull a main that come out from into the triangle of the throat, the string slide on the inferior surface of the frame and of the throat...
I think that the slide action gives a lost of tension to the string...
Is a problem that born from the geometry of my stringing machine or is normal??
This is the reason I pull twice string a time in the centre of main and i pick the string with finger for check the lost tension in double pull....
What advised do you give me???
Thank you very much

[kwick]

Ciao Steeljack,

Just a question. Are you taking your centre main string to be tensioned through the triangle and over the frame or from underneath ? It should go underneath - right ?

kwick

[steeljack]

Yes, the string slides underneath the frame during the pulling action!

[David Pavlich]

Try stringing with a Stringway drop weight machine, better, faster, more accurate and easier than any electric machine which would probably cost about the same. :)
Bye,
:cool:

I can see we are going to have some disagreements...but that's healthy.

If the drop weight machine was better than the electronics, it would be the machine of choice at the pro tournaments.

Your turn.

David

[Jay Cee]

David,

Compare what is comparable, I have compared a drop weight machine from Stringway with an electric machine of about the same price, and I maintain my statement. You are comparing the drop weight with an electronic machine, you have a Babolat Sensor in your shop and a SP Aria at home, both are good machines but even if the SP is relatively cheap compared with the Sensor they are both far more expensive than the SW drop weight.

The difference between an excellent drop weight machine and an excellent electronic machine is that a professional stringer is capable of stringing a racquet just as well if not better with the drop weight than with the electronic, but an average stringer will be far more likely to do a better job on the electronic machine.

The real question is that for an average stringer, whether it be a good tournament player who strings his own racquets or a home stringer who strings for himself and some friends, where his budget to purchase a stringing machine would be somewhere from $350 to $750 range, would be better spent on an Eagnas or SP electric machine or on a Stringway (Laserfibre) drop weight.

As far as I am concerned there is a very serious gap between an "electric" and an "electronic" machine, yet because of aggressive marketing by some of the these companies selling home stringing machines the general public opinion would be that "electric" means professional, no matter how cheap the machine is, on the contrary, the message which comes across is that if it's a "drop weight" then it's a "cheap toy". Both of these assumptions can be very wrong.

As to why the Pro Stringers on the Tour use Electronic machines, this is a vast subject which needs more than a few lines to explain, but the most important thing is that it is far less tedious to string a large number of frames with a modern highly performant electronic machine. To string 20-30 racquets a day is possible for a Pro on the Tour, but to do it on a drop weight is a torture of the past which has almost been forgotten since the middle 1980's.

As for the precision, don't under-estimate the drop weight, as a tensioner it can still the most accurate system in existence, unfortunately very few machines are made to a level of engineering excellence that permits them to be considered as made to professional quality standards, fortunately Stringway machines are available and provide us with that quality.

I have always maintained that the clamps and the cradle (mounting system) are more important as the tensioner, this is where the difference between very expensive pro machines and all of the others is the most evident. When one machine can cost more than 10 times the price of another it would be a real shame if the pro machine was not better made. This is also one of the reasons that I say that a cheap machine with twin fixed clamps (single or double action) is barely comparable to the precision of the real pro machines, and yet publicity would lead us to believe that it's the same thing. Fixed clamps means that it's like a "pro machine" and flying clamps are "cheap toys" (and sometimes they really are.)

I am certain that excellent quality "flying clamps" used in an appropriate way, can provide a better quality string job than any of the cheaper machines using cradles with "fixed clamps". Once again we are talking about equivalent budgets.

In a nutshell, for $500 what will give you the best results when you string a racquet, you can choose either :
- an electric machine with twin single action fixed clamps (ex.SP or Eagnas)
- a drop weight machine with triple floating clamps (ex.Stringway M.60)

The right answer is undoubtedly the SW, unfortunately if you look at the success of the sales of these machines the part of the market share for the better machine is very small compared with the others. The reason is easy to understand, the majority of the clients for a stringing machine are under the impression that an electric machine with double fixed clamps is almost the same as a real pro electronic machine, which of course also has double fixed clamps and electric motor, but that is the only things that they have in common.

I'm not selling neither one nor the other, I am just trying to explain, to all those who want to listen, that there are other more interesting possibilities in the choice of an economical stringing machine, than the most obvious choices that most home stringers and players make.

I'm sure that we are on the same wavelength, I doubt that we have any disagreements on this issue.

Cheers,
JC :cool:

[David Pavlich]

Jay Cee,

Got your point. I missed it earlier. I must say that I tend to jump up when I read a post saying that a "hobby machine" is as likely to produce a good stringbed as a pro machine. I can see I was doing the Apples and Oranges thing.

Sorry you had to type that long post.

I don't doubt the accuracy of a drop weight that is calibrated properly. It's tough to beat the law of physics. And your point about the mounting system and clamps is also correct.

In my case, a drop weight, even the best one, would be a hindrance because it just isn't fast enough. My machines are quick AND produce excellent results. In my case, that's what I need.

David

[Jonnyshoes]

Hey guys where does crank spring tensioning fit into this? It sounds like we really need to decide just how acurate we want to be when we string. As for this club player a couple of pounds up or down would not make much differnce, especially if you change you strings after 6 to 8 hours of play.

You all have a very Merry Christmas

Shoes

[ericb]

Hey guys where does crank spring tensioning fit into this?

The problem with spring lockout tensioners is that they are not constant pull machines. A drop weight which is used properly is always constant pull, as are most higher end electronic machines.

This is one of the reasons that it is important to ask someone what kind of machine their racquet was previously strung with. If they're used to 60lbs on a lockout machine, they will usually find 60lbs on a constant pull to be too tight.

There's a discussion of constant pull machines on the Silent Partner site somewhere if you're interested.

Cheers,

Eric

[Jonnyshoes]

Ericb

Thanks that makes sense, and I remember reading that silent partner discussion prior to purchasing my machine.

Shoes

[David Pavlich]

Hey guys where does crank spring tensioning fit into this? It sounds like we really need to decide just how acurate we want to be when we string. As for this club player a couple of pounds up or down would not make much differnce, especially if you change you strings after 6 to 8 hours of play.

You all have a very Merry Christmas

Shoes

Your point is well taken. Some stringers tend to get into the "paralysis by analysis" syndrome. Mostly, that's a good thing. Keeps us sharp. However, we also tend to split those proverbial hairs too much. I'm as guilty as the next guy, but that's my nature when it comes to stringing.

Your comment about not noticing a couple of pounds difference is quite true for 95% of my stringing customers. Heck, some of them didn't even know what string or tension was in their frames! At least I keep them informed as to what is going on with their racquets. Even though they don't have that feel that so few players have, I treat each one as if they do. They deserve nothing less.

David

[Tim Strawn]

As I remember the original question was a request about techniques to save time in stringing. Someone mentioned stringing one cross ahead and someone else disagreed. I tend to agree with the person who says weave one ahead. Yes, it is easier on the string as JayCee mentioned but it also serves the purpose of creating a less obstructive path to weave the string through, thus increasing the speed a bit. It's good to remember that it's not just one thing that's going to increase your speed--it's all the little things you do during the entire process. If you've ever watched a true professional in action there's a nice easy fluid motion to their style--a purpose for even the littlest of things they do ;) Those little things add up to speed with the overall stringing process.

Someone also mentioned holding on to the string while weaving and yes, this can be helpful but it can also be disastrous. You would be well advised not to do this with natural gut while weaving the crosses. Gut is a very fibrous material and as you're pulling the string through the crosses it will naturally twist due to the additional friction caused by pulling the string over and under all of the crosses (again, this is definitely a good example of why you should weave one ahead with your crosses). The gut will begin to come unraveled and you will have a real mess on your hands. Plus, as the string begins to twist you'll notice that the loop on the outside of the frame becomes tighter and tighter the smaller it gets. It then becomes very hard to keep it from kinking out there when this happens. The easy way to take care of this natural phenomenon is to let the end of your gut string drop to the floor and allow the twisting process to take place naturally, without holding on to the end of the string with your hand. You may feel this will slow you down a bit, but in the end, which would you prefer? A nice firm piece of gut string in the racquet, or an expensive piece of gut that begins to come unraveled when you still have 4-5 crosses to weave ;)

Maxx

[junbug]

hi,
i'm new to this forum. first of all, are there any of you guys from over here in the pacific northwest? preferably closer to the potland area. next i just bought a used prince p200 on craigslist last night from a former player who lives in monroe ,OR which is north of junction city on hwy 99W for $100 ...YES $100. the machine is still in great working condition. and i hope i can get my money's worth. however i am anticipating possible down time on this machine. (always good to be safe than sorry) are there any of you who are still using one and who can i turn to in the event this happens?
any help is appreciated.