View Full Version : ATW: for ncode tour 90
Hi, i've been reading some of the stuff on the ATW method of stringing and decided to try it on the above racket. Now with this racket, to get the last cross on the right side you have to start on the 2 cross from the top which means that the last string you tie off is the top cross, now doesn't that somewhat defeat the point of starting from the top to reduce stress o it? Also, does it make much of a differene if you tie off the last main on the short side before doing the crosses, or is it better to clamp it and do it when you've put in the last main. Also is ATW just another name for the box method or is that something else?
for what its worth, here are my 2 cents...the point of an ATW pattern in my opinion is 2 fold:
1 is to get a consistent tension throughout the entire string bed
2 is to be able to go from top to bottom on the crosses without doing a 2 piece job.
why would doing the top cross last defeat the purpose of an ATW pattern? I have just started doing ATW patterns too and i like it. they seem to give a nice consistent feel through the string bed.
and yes, ATW is also known as a box pattern. I tie off the short side as soon as i am done with it, then move onto the crosses, last main and last cross, then tie off the second knot...anyone do anything differently?
Hi Abiriax,
For me, to do a true box pattern or ATW, you always miss the top cross when you start your crosses on the long side. Just missing the top cross and stringing head to throat from the 2nd cross will not cause significant differences in stresses on the frame. Putting the top cross in last is of little consequence.
Regarding finishing/clamping the short side or not, I prefer to clamp it with a starting clamp and complete the long side first. If you complete the short side first, you will have a different number of mains on each side when you are weaving. Most stringers prefer to start their weaves by always going under (or over) the first main. It doesn't really matter as long as you always do it the same. With different number of mains while you are weaving, you have to start by going "over" the first main from one direction but "under" the first main from the opposite direction - all the way down the frame. No real problem in that, you just have to think about it and keep checking so it slows you down. Now, whether weaving with a different number of mains on each side, causes any additional stresses or imbalance to the final stringbed, I cannot say. However, to avoid the possibility, I prefer to clamp and weave with the same number of mains on both sides.
I still don't quite understand how you can do an ATW pattern without missing the top cross no matter what the racquet pattern is. The only difference for me is on a racquet with an even number of crosses, you put 1 additional cross at the end on the short side. For a frame with an odd number of crosses (eg. your n-code tour 90), you put 2 additional crosses at the end of the short side. In both cases, you start from the second cross when you begin your crosses on the long side. Let's remember, one of the benefits of ATW is that you never finish by tying off directly after a main but you always tie off the long and short sides after crosses at the top and bottom. This helps to keeps the same balanced tensions on your outside edge mains.
Hope this helps,
kwick
kwick asked me to post this picture for him:
http://www.stringforum.net/images/ATW_ncode_tour_90.gif
ok very goo thanks guys but two questions. on the last cross you usually increace tension and also does it make a difference if you tie off of the last short main instead of going to the crosses (as you'll lose tension on those instead).
Before anyone asks (I had someone in mind), here is a clear ;) method to do a classic ATW pattern for a racquet with an "even" number of crosses.
1) Print out the pretty picture above
2) Rub out the bottom yellow cross string so you are left with only one.
3) Rub out the words "Tie off" at the left hand side of the throat and write them back in on the right hand side
4) Rub out the word "Odd" and replace it with "Even"
Cheers,
kwick
David Pavlich
2004-12-21, 03:21
The classic ATW pattern as it is found in the USRSA guide has the frame with an even number of crosses starting the cross weave at the first cross. Odd numbered cross strings start at the second cross.
I've done several other versions of the ATW pattern, but they require starting clamps. For my part, I prefer the classic pattern.
David
Hi David,
I'm frantically trying to restore some flushed memory here...
The classic ATW pattern as it is found in the USRSA guide has the frame with an even number of crosses starting the cross weave at the first cross.
So, you don't actually complete the box in this pattern and you tie off after the edge main on both short and long sides ?
How do you do this without starting clamps ?
regards,
kwick
David Pavlich
2004-12-21, 17:43
Hi David,
I'm frantically trying to restore some flushed memory here...
The classic ATW pattern as it is found in the USRSA guide has the frame with an even number of crosses starting the cross weave at the first cross.
So, you don't actually complete the box in this pattern and you tie off after the edge main on both short and long sides ?
How do you do this without starting clamps ?
regards,
kwick
Hi kwick,
The classic pattern goes this way:
Do your mains as normal. I tie off the short side when it's done, but many will hold it with a starting clamp instead of tying off in case there's a mistake. Once the short side is tied off, it's a wasted set of strings unless you have a lot of extra on the long side.
When you get to the last long side main, don't lace it. If you have an even number of crosses, then start at the first cross. An odd number requires that you start at the second cross. Do your cross weaves as normal, weave the last main and tie off or the last main and first cross then tie off depending on the number of crosses.
There's no need for a starting clamp unless you do as I mentioned earlier to avoid wasting a set of strings if you make a mistake somewhere after you finish the short side.
I hope this answers your question.
David
Hi David,
Yes, it answers my questions and raises some more comments which people can assess for themselves in an ATW solution - No right or wrong, just differences and possibilities.
If you tie off the short side first, you must be weaving your crosses with a different number of mains on each side - correct ? Any concerns about this either in frame stress or increased chances of a miss-weave ?
Secondly, with an even number of crosses, you tie off both sides after the outer edge main. OK I guess, but I prefer to tie-off both ends after a cross hence I use the slightly more complicated pattern shown earlier that enables you to do this. It keeps better tension on my outside edge mains which I feel is more important than my top/bottom cross and I consider an improvement in the end result.
Finally, with an odd number of crosses, I assume you still tie off your short side after the outer edge main whereas your long side is tied off after the top cross which you missed out earlier. Again, this I prefer not to do as I will probably end up with different tensions on the outer edge mains which is one of the beauties that ATW patterns can allow you to avoid. Again, I consider the pattern I described to be an opportunity for an improved final result.
Like you said, you could do these patterns without starting clamps if you are happy to tie off your short side and weave with different number of mains on each side but I generally us the starting clamp and keep it even.
Cheers,
kwick
David Pavlich
2004-12-22, 16:09
kwick,
I've used many different versions of the pattern. All have merit. I do it the classic way for 1. consistency for my customers and 2. ease of use.
Trust me when I say this, 95% of my customers couldn't tell the difference of 3 or 4 lbs per frame. However, I treat ALL of them as if they can. That is the reason I do everything as close to the same as possible, hybrids not withstanding.
Anyway, back to the machine.
David
David,
Understood and agree with your consistent approach. I think mine is too but just different I guess. But I'm still interested to know if you do your ATW's with the short-side finished (tied off) and weave your crosses through an odd number of mains. Several people have asked this before and I've never known anyone to say that they do. Just interested as I've often thought about it but never done it yet.
cheers,
kwick
David Pavlich
2004-12-22, 22:38
David,
Understood and agree with your consistent approach. I think mine is too but just different I guess. But I'm still interested to know if you do your ATW's with the short-side finished (tied off) and weave your crosses through an odd number of mains. Several people have asked this before and I've never known anyone to say that they do. Just interested as I've often thought about it but never done it yet.
cheers,
kwick
In a 16 main frame strung ATW, I string through 15 mains since the last long side main is left out. If you're concerned that there is some sort of excess stress on the frame, fear not. David Bone, the stringing guru at the USRSA strings in this fashion. I used to do this pattern in my old Klipper and never had a frame explode.
David
Gaines Hillix
2005-10-01, 18:17
Hi Abiriax,
I still don't quite understand how you can do an ATW pattern without missing the top cross no matter what the racquet pattern is. The only difference for me is on a racquet with an even number of crosses, you put 1 additional cross at the end on the short side. For a frame with an odd number of crosses (eg. your n-code tour 90), you put 2 additional crosses at the end of the short side. In both cases, you start from the second cross when you begin your crosses on the long side. Let's remember, one of the benefits of ATW is that you never finish by tying off directly after a main but you always tie off the long and short sides after crosses at the top and bottom. This helps to keeps the same balanced tensions on your outside edge mains.
The simplest pattern and one that eliminats having to weave any outside mains is; leave off the last main on the short side, clamp off with a starting clamp or tie off on the 2nd last main on that side, as you prefer, then do all of the mains on the long side, then the bottom cross, then the last main on the short side, then start the crosses on the first main. You just have to make sure to get the weave right(if odd number of crosses it matches the last main, if even it's woven opposite to the last cross).
As I understand it correcly, if i'am using the image in tjis post, you have to use an extra clamp like an starting clamp.
Where do I place that clamp?? and is it a starting clamp??
Do I place it on the last two mains on the "yellow side"
@iho,
You place it on the outside of the frame at position 8H left-side in the picture where the short side main changes colour from red to yellow. Then you string all your long side to completion (blue crosses and green main plus top cross. Then go back re-tension the yellow tail and complete the short side outer main and bottom crosses.
You could avoid using the starting clamp completely and finish the short side first but then you have to be careful how you start the blue crosses otherwise when you get to the end, the bottom blue cross could go over and under the same strings as your first yellow cross. You're also weaving with an odd number of mains so you go under the first string from one side and over the first string from the other side. Plus you also get some hard weaves if you finish the short side first.
There are other patterns that do things slightly differently but for this specific pattern, I find the starting clamp works well.
cheers,
kwick
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